Time transcripts of DMAC_Q1_9

[00:00:04:020]	

[00:00:08:040]	I think for me it was, the,

[00:00:12:060]	I would have to say I focused on the idea.

[00:00:16:080]	Um, so, I guess it's more product

[00:00:20:110]	insofar as I had this notion of

[00:00:24:140]	what—how a certain material object might be

[00:00:28:150]	brought to significance. Yeah, yeah, keeping that

[00:00:32:190]	image in mind, and how to play with that image,

[00:00:36:200]	how to speak to that image in the video, that guided me.

[00:00:40:250]	I'd say I was probably thinking more about the product.

[00:00:45:010]	because the process, for me, I've worked with iMovie extensively.

[00:00:49:060]	So, I just needed to know what I wanted it to look like

[00:00:53:080]	in the end, and I knew how to get there.

[00:00:57:100]	I think that when I was making the Concept in 60 video I was probably

[00:01:01:110]	thinking more about the product

[00:01:05:140]	and, I mean, the

[00:01:09:170]	process-based part of that would be that

[00:01:13:200]	I was learning a lot about the programs as I went about iMovie and Audacity

[00:01:17:210]	specifically. And so, I would stumble upon one thing, and I'd think, 'Oh, that just made

[00:01:21:260]	this other thing easier,' or I would go back and redraft certain parts of it.

[00:01:26:020]	But, it was definitely, I was focused on how I wanted it to look

[00:01:30:040]	in the end. I was just, I became surprised at certain points, of how it actually

[00:01:34:060]	did turn out. Because you have a problem, and you try to fix it really quickly, and you say, "I've got

[00:01:38:080]	this blank space, like, visually, to go with this audio,' and then whatever

[00:01:42:110]	you put in there. But I wanted it to have, like, a certain aesthetic and

[00:01:46:130]	a certain timing and that kind of thing.  - I think of both,

[00:01:50:230]	um, when we did the 60—Concept in 60,

[00:01:54:280]	I knew I had an interesting, sound

[00:01:59:030]	concept. But I did not have the craft to perform it. Which

[00:02:03:060]	gives me insights into students who I know are smart, and say interesting

[00:02:07:070]	things in class but have trouble then articulating their thoughts

[00:02:11:080]	in writing. I think of writing, which I know is the mode

[00:02:15:090]	I know best. Words. Print.

[00:02:19:200]	I think of what I'm doing in my composition class as teaching

[00:02:23:260]	both process and product. I think the process of writing,

[00:02:28:010]	inventing, revising, multiple drafts

[00:02:28:080]	inventing, revising, multiple drafts

[00:02:32:100]	affects the way people think and communicate. Being a better writer makes you a better

[00:02:36:120]	thinker. You do have to have a product, however....

[00:02:40:140]	Um, I think I was thinking more about product. 'Cause I had

[00:02:44:190]	something in mind, and, um,

[00:02:48:200]	once I understood how to edit the video,

[00:02:52:240]	how to make still pictures move,

[00:02:57:080]	then I had a pretty clear sense of what I wanted to do. So,

[00:03:01:110]	my focus was really on getting to that place, to get to that

[00:03:05:130]	final product. Um, I think, looking back,

[00:03:09:160]	I'll probably think about process more. And certainly

[00:03:13:170]	that's something I want to talk to my students about. I don't imagine they'll come to the assignment

[00:03:17:210]	with, you know, a clear sense of what they want to do and everything ready to go.

[00:03:21:260]	Um, so, I think that that process discussion's going to be really important.

[00:03:26:020]	But, for me I had kind of done that, prior to

[00:03:30:080]	arriving here. 

[00:03:32:080]	Although, originally, I thought that we had to do 60 videos 'cause

[00:03:36:090]	I didn't read the instructions clearly.  - Aren't you glad we didn't?

[00:03:40:100]	I was like, "Oh, my God!"

[00:03:44:110]	I was thinking more

[00:03:48:130]	of product. And, kind of where I wanted to get, at the end.

[00:03:52:160]	And in that sense, I think it was, a little bit

[00:03:56:160]	...different. And that's one of my questions about

[00:04:00:200]	this, in terms of weight. Both as a teacher and

[00:04:04:270]	as a composer, is the weight of these texts. 

[00:04:08:280]	Like, a 60 in 60, like, what would be the equivalent of that, in alphabetic text?

[00:04:13:040]	Because my process changes the larger the project, right?

[00:04:17:050]	And the longer the product is supposed to be. And I say longer 'cause typically we think of it in pages.

[00:04:21:110]	Um, but I don't know, I didn't really know how to 

[00:04:25:120]	figure. It's like, one minute? That doesn't mean anything to me. And I think that's another reason why

[00:04:29:140]	I kind of took that funneling approach, of starting wide and narrowing

[00:04:33:150]	down, is because I didn't know, I didn't know what it meant to

[00:04:37:180]	undertake a project of that kind 'cause I've never done it before.

[00:04:41:230]	I mean, I think that it was sort of a combination of both.

[00:04:45:260]	Um, because I had the text and then because

[00:04:49:290]	I was, I edited the text first, and in terms of

[00:04:54:030]	the audio portion, to get it down to 60 seconds. 

[00:04:58:100]	And, so, the process for me was

[00:05:02:120]	thinking about the kinds of images that I would bring in, and

[00:05:06:150]	incorporate into my project. What was very

[00:05:10:170]	interesting is that it was such a reciprocal, um,

[00:05:14:200]	and almost a, um—there was a lot of remixing

[00:05:18:220]	and there was a lot of, sort of reciprocal influence. 

[00:05:22:260]	Um, once I had the audio

[00:05:27:010]	in place, then I was able to go back and look at the

[00:05:31:080]	images that I had selected and say, "Okay, well I think that this will work, this will work,

[00:05:35:140]	and this seems like this would work really well with the idea

[00:05:39:190]	in mind." So, in some ways, I suppose that

[00:05:43:220]	you'd call it more product oriented, because I had the audio in place. But,

[00:05:47:250]	there was a lot of process that went along with it....

[00:05:52:000]	Uh, exclusively product. Um, process

[00:05:56:060]	—I say exclusively. Um,

[00:06:00:110]	I think I was more invested in the product than the process.

[00:06:04:140]	Um, but that's, it's a difficult

[00:06:08:140]	thing to even try to make a distinction on. Because the way that I

[00:06:12:160]	um, the way that I think about my own scholarship and my own

[00:06:16:190]	kind of artistic practice is that the invention side of it comes

[00:06:20:200]	from the process. So,

[00:06:24:220]	inventing a product is inexorably kind of tied to

[00:06:28:250]	the process.  - I, I mean I think probably

[00:06:32:280]	both. I think in a certain sense product,

[00:06:37:040]	but, at the same time, I was thinking a lot about what is, what would this be like

[00:06:41:050]	to incorporate into a classroom. And I was thinking a lot about what is—how hard is it for me to learn this,

[00:06:45:060]	how are these people teaching this, would I ever be able to

[00:06:49:120]	get up and teach someone how to use iMovie? I'm still not sure about that.

[00:06:53:180]	But, I do know we have resources to help out with that at Penn State. So, that's good.

[00:06:57:210]	But, I was also sort of surprised by the process

[00:07:01:250]	and, I think in several places—y'know, I was focusing it more on the product

[00:07:05:260]	but then something happened in the process that really surprised me, and so my attention

[00:07:09:290]	was sort of shifting back and forth. Like, I used a lot of

[00:07:14:030]	family photos that I just, that I had on my computer and ended up just sort of

[00:07:18:080]	having to go with the resources that I sort of already had collected.

[00:07:22:140]	Sort of, trying to rearrange these things, I started noticing these relationships between

[00:07:26:180]	these materials that I was already really familiar with. I looked at those pictures a hundred times.

[00:07:30:200]	But, sort of using them in a different way, that process

[00:07:34:220]	kind of lead me to make these new connections. And that, that really surprised me, to think about

[00:07:38:250]	kind of, how shaking up that process or changing that process really lead me to look at

[00:07:42:270]	the material in a completely different way.

[00:07:46:270]	

[00:07:51:040]	Um, I guess I was kind of thinking process, because, I mean, this whole exercise was a "finger exercise,"

[00:07:55:060]	as they've been emphasizing. So, I was trying to kind of thinking about what I could

[00:07:59:120]	actually learn about the different types of technology as I was doing it....

[00:08:03:140]	I think I was focused, in the beginning, more on process, just

[00:08:07:160]	trying to figure out a way in to the assignment. Of course, eventually

[00:08:11:160]	you start thinking about product, but I feel like that didn't happen for me 'til the very end.

[00:08:15:170]	I think I started out thinking about the product a lot.

[00:08:19:200]	And I think that that was, ultimately, part of what really

[00:08:23:240]	paralyzed me, in terms of being able to produce. Once I sort of let go of that,

[00:08:27:260]	and was being reminded that this was an exercise, that it was practice, 

[00:08:31:280]	um, that helped me to focus on the process more.

[00:08:35:300]	And actually being able to think about it as a process

[00:08:40:030]	is what allowed me to eventually produce.

[00:08:44:100]	The biggest barrier to learning is not being able to forgive yourself, and to

[00:08:48:150]	set too high of a goal. So, I thought,

[00:08:52:160]	I really did focus on process. I thought, I just wanna feel more comfortable with Audacity and iMovie

[00:08:56:180]	at the end of this process. And it really

[00:09:00:200]	you know, I don't think anyone thought, 'Well, here is my masterpiece,' so I, I thought,

[00:09:04:210]	you know, I don't really care if this doesn't look great. So, yeah,

[00:09:08:240]	I think I was more focused on process. I think the teachers

[00:09:12:280]	here have done a good job of encouraging us to focus on process.

[00:09:17:020]	I knew that I wouldn't be able to build something perfect, in the time that we had

[00:09:21:040]	for the project. And, I also knew that if I worried too much about

[00:09:25:100]	that, I would get, just kind of, y'know, it wouldnt be as productive, I would be too

[00:09:29:150]	worried about what wasn't going right. And, um,

[00:09:33:210]	I think that it was, I also really wanted to understand

[00:09:37:220]	how the program worked, and I kind of decided what was most useful about

[00:09:41:250]	this for me was to figure out how to play around with things, so I have that knoweldge

[00:09:45:260]	going forward and doing other projects of my own or coaching that in the classroom.

[00:09:49:300]	So, I think a goal for me was to kind of figure out how one goes about

[00:09:54:030]	this new mode of composing. Which was weird, it was kind of like getting put back on

[00:09:58:090]	the tricycle, or the bike with training wheels again, like, 'Okay, I have to really

[00:10:02:160]	it kind of really laid bare for me the struggles for getting started when

[00:10:06:220]	you're not as used to writing. I wasn't used to writing in this way,

[00:10:10:240]	and even though I feel pretty good about having an intuitive skill set for

[00:10:14:260]	picking up, y'know, a new technology presented to me, or just having the

[00:10:18:280]	patience to work through it, it was really interesting

[00:10:23:010]	how strange it felt to kind of work in a way that I'm not used to

[00:10:27:040]	and felt I had less control over.

[00:10:31:070]	I guess I was thinking, I guess a little bit of both? I knew the point I

[00:10:35:100]	wanted to make. But it was very much about the process,

[00:10:39:150]	learning to use the technology, as well as even using iMovie. I've never used

[00:10:43:220]	iMovie. Um, it's an interesting question, thinking about

[00:10:47:220]	process and product. Because, I thought about, 'Well, 

[00:10:51:230]	we'll be showing these to our peers.' So, I did want to have something

[00:10:55:250]	to say. But it was also very much about learning the thing, for me as a

[00:10:59:280]	teacher, and how I can use that in my teaching and my scholarship.

[00:11:03:300]	

[00:11:08:020]	I had a lot of anxiety about the product. 

[00:11:12:050]	Because, um, I wanted it to be

[00:11:16:070]	valued, and I wanted it to be assessed, and I wanted

[00:11:20:090]	to be seen as competent and above satisfactory.

[00:11:24:130]	So, um, when the

[00:11:28:190]	process was explained, I thought, 'Oh, okay, fine, whatever.

[00:11:32:260]	I just need to worry about producing a really great product.' So, I thought a lot

[00:11:36:270]	the product, up until, y'know, it took

[00:11:40:280]	me quite a bit of time to come up with that.

[00:11:44:280]	And it was only in the wee hours, at the end, going through that I thought

[00:11:49:020]	about the process. And, you know, I missed a few things. You know, I missed

[00:11:53:060]	a few things that other people had

[00:11:57:100]	in there, other elements such as transitions, and things like that.

[00:12:01:140]	Because I was so, y'know, consumed by the product.

[00:12:05:190]	The idea of process, I kept hearing them say "finger tools."

[00:12:09:260]	"Process." But then, in another voice I kept hearing them say,

[00:12:13:280]	"Everyone gets an A." So, that's kind of saying, "Wait, look at the assessment." Even though

[00:12:18:030]	it wants to disconnect, it makes us aware of assessment.

[00:12:22:040]	And I saw those videos, nice and polished videos,

[00:12:26:070]	even though they were student videos, they were really nice in the end.

[00:12:30:080]	So, that kind of said, "Hey, you're being compared to this."

[00:12:34:100]	And then we look around at each other and see some sort of comparison. So, as much as I wanted to think

[00:12:38:140]	about process, I think product kept jumping up and saying, "Hey,

[00:12:42:200]	make it nice and shiney, we're gonna show it at a party. Everyone's gonna see

[00:12:46:260]	what you make." So, I was a little disconcerted, because I wanted to focus on the

[00:12:50:280]	process, and really just think about the process and how it was going.

[00:12:55:000]	But I kept thinking about the product.  - Is that a 

[00:12:59:040]	bad thing?  - I'm not sure, and I'm not sure we can separate it.

[00:13:03:080]	And especially in the framework of the classroom, I don't know

[00:13:07:120]	if it can be separated, but it would be interesting if we could relieve that pressure.

[00:13:11:140]	And say, "These are the tools, learn the tools," and not have 

[00:13:15:190]	people stay up until three in the morning to finish their videos [ laughs ]. 

[00:13:19:260]	Because it is a product, right? So, as teachers,

[00:13:23:290]	and in classroom situations and the environment of education now,

[00:13:28:020]	denying the product is a difficult thing.

[00:13:32:040]	- Do you have any ideas about how we might make that kind of low-stakes place to play

[00:13:36:070]	for students, where the product doesn't matter?

[00:13:40:090]	I think by shifting it towards research. Y'know,

[00:13:44:130]	where they're finidng original research, so you can see the process

[00:13:48:170]	at play, here. Y'know, you send them out with the camera to

[00:13:52:230]	y'know, research a community center, and they come back with

[00:13:56:230]	y'know, some interesting stories. And they collect these things. So, 

[00:14:00:290]	the, the research process defines the product,

[00:14:05:010]	in some way. So, they're not responsible for composing

[00:14:09:030]	a documentary type of video. An ethnographic video is more

[00:14:13:050]	defined by, let's say, what they find. And it is what it is. Y'know,

[00:14:17:080]	you can't say, "The person should've said this," or, "You should have found a better story."

[00:14:21:110]	It's, the research itself kinda defines the product. So, then they can kind of,

[00:14:25:140]	you can understand why they got what they got.

[00:14:29:180]	Because the research set that forward. Instead of saying, "You should have found more."

[00:14:33:230]	And that's what we tell ourselves, right? "We gotta find the right person to say the right thing,"

[00:14:37:290]	"I have to find the right book that aligns all my research."

[00:14:42:000]	So, it's how we drive ourselves, and then I think we

[00:14:46:020]	expect the students the same, to do the same thing.